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Slaaaaaay Babes @justagayboy
Hey does anyone have like any articles or something discussing the JL that aren’t written by idiots?
-> Superman’s Undies @supermansass
What do you mean written by idiots?
->> Slaaaaaay Babes @justagayboy
Posts written with extreme biases one way or another. It’s for a paper I’m writing.
->>> Looking Through @freethebees
Not an article but there’s a podcast episode where the talkers do list a bunch of citations on their website? You can listen and get some stuff.
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Gotham by Night: Past Episodes
Episode 35: Justice League - Origins and Merits (Or why people need to remember this is a volunteer thing)
Listen
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T: Hello, and welcome to Gotham by Night. The podcast where your two favourite idiots chat about the weird shit in Gotham. And wow, episode 35? We’re going places. Oh shit, I’m T by the way.
Ari: Nice catch. And I’m Ari! And today’s topic is a… We’re gonna get comments. That’s for sure.
T: It’s probably one of the more polarizing topics in today’s society. The Justice League {dramatic sound effects} DUN DUN DUN. Aka, the group of volunteer firefighters who save the day.
Ari: Which is, in fact, the main point! Too Long, Didn’t Listen? The Justice League is made up of strictly volunteers and operates more like the Red Cross than a global police unit.
T: Don’t get us wrong. Some heroes are funded by various organizations, and we know they are paid to do so. But they’re honestly the minority. The Lantern Crops are also a minority, though I actually don’t know if they get paid Earth money.
Ari: Yeah, we aren’t getting into intergalactic law today. Leave that one for our buddies in Metropolis.
T: Right, the ‘Big Blue Beautiful’ podcast. Nice guys, kinda boring though. Said with love, by the way. I think they called us ‘feral cats’ last time they talked about us. But yeah, we’re not getting into that. What we are going to talk about is how the JL formed, and discuss the various positions on them. Including Batman, who was only proved to be real… ten years ago? And like… ten years after the JL formed despite him being a founding member?
Ari: Yes. That has been clarified, by the way. For our non-Gotham listeners, Batman started his… career as a hero by using-
T: Vigilante! Sorry! That’s a legal term I found out about during our research. Heroes are only ‘heroes’ legally if they have powers. Batman has no confirmed ones, so he’s a vigilante… sorry.
Ari: Is that really the only difference? Ok. Whatever. You’re good. Better to know. As I was saying, Batman began his vigilante career by using fear as his motivation rather than hope. His goal was, and is, to scare the bad guys and give hope to the people that way.
T: His career start date isn’t clear, but it’s thought to be about twenty-five years ago. Because he worked on fear, it was better to work from the shadows, so most people regarded him as a hoax.
Ari: Or, for the more superstitious, a cryptid. Some have even gone so far as to claim that he’s a demon straight from hell. Which,... ok. Whatever. I’m not getting into that one. So, for the first stretch of his career- like ten or so years- People weren’t sure he was real.
T: It was only when the first Robin- and yes, there were multiple Robins I have evidence- was running around that people started actually seeing him, and when he started being photographed with the JL. His name was on the roster, though. But this isn’t about our favourite DILF- sorry, Brucie, you don’t wear leather- it’s about the JL.
Ari: Yes! Sorry. Tangent for context. Batman was initially a part-time volunteer. He kept them at arm's length and didn’t claim to be part of them until later on.
T: About eight years ago I think, but not the point. So the JL started nearly twenty years ago when the first large-scale alien invasion happened. Not much is really known about this invasion other than whatever they were they also had wiped out most of the martians and could shapeshift into people.
Ari: And from that event, we have The Justice League. The first iteration was more like a heroes' alliance than anything. A mutual agreement to pick up the phone when they need help. It’s not until Wayne Industries and- oh, what’s his name? The guy from Green Arrow’s city.
T: … fuck I actually might need to look this up. OLIVER QUEEN. Right, that guy.
Ari: That’s the bastard! Him!
T: Yeah. Those two teamed up to fund the Justice League around fifteen years ago. They’ve also received support from other donations and the Green Lantern people. It’s why they have their space station. However, they were still small in number. There was Superman, Batman, the Flash, Green Arrow, the cool Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman and… I think that’s it? Those guys were the first. It’s only a couple years after more began joining.
Ari: Martian Manhunter was the other one. He warned the others about that first invasion and basically triggered the whole thing. But yes. Now, there’s something like a hundred or so heroes and vigilantes attached to the JL worldwide.
T: Right. Sorry, Mr. Manhunter. There’s also different divisions within the JL. There’s the Dark Division, which deals with magic, the Teen Titans, a grey space since they’re under the JL, but also separate? It’s confusing, and a few others too.
Ari: Yes. Now, my thing is that the JL, as a whole, is absolutely necessary. How many things have happened where the JL members were the only ones capable of responding?
T: Way to fucking many. And before anyone gets any ideas of them ‘drawing the villains to us’ I have too much evidence we would still be targets for a variety of villains. Earth really isn’t prepared for a lot of the shit coming from outer space. Never mind magic and that there are actual literal DEMONS. We need specialized help. The JL provides it.
Ari: Yes. And, to be fair, there have been a couple of events that are directly related to one or more Justice League members. I remember that there was some scandal about Hawkgirl? Like 13 or so years ago?
T: Right, I remember that. She was benched for a while, but honestly, those are outliers. Most of it is just random villains who think of taking over Earth or whatever. But this has sparked a lot of commentary, thanks to the outliers who somehow seem like literal devils… wait, isn't there an actual demon… ummm… the root of all evil? Like that’s what people think?
Ari: {thoughtful hum} I think so? I don’t remember off the top of my head. I’ll have to look into it.
T: Whatever. Anyway, so there’s a lot of blame at the JL. There are hate groups, political parties and terrorist groups who think they should be under ‘more restraints’ or that they should all be killed. I’m not joking about the last one. We all know Superman has like five people try to kill him every week because he’s an alien… wait, is he literally an illegal alien? Like literally?
Ari: Ok. So that is a whole thing. The official story is that Kal-El, the last son of Krypton, was raised by some miscellaneous human couple after having escaped the dying Krypton through a wormhole. There is, however, a lot of hearsay and supposition surrounding that.
T: I mean… yeah, probably. But anyway, a lot of hate towards the JL comes from bigots too. I know a lot of the religious groups call out for the execution of all the aliens, and really hate Wonder Woman. And the magic users.
Ari: Yes. The aliens for ‘not being human’ and Wonder Woman for… blatant sexism? Admittedly, I don’t know why they hate her as much as they do?
T: The Greek Gods are real. She points it out all the time? Prays to them, so it’s all ‘pagan’ stuff… but also cause her outfit.
Ari: Oh yeah. That. So… blatant sexism and rampant religious xenophobia. Got it.
T: Right. Now, this isn’t just an American issue. Canada has these groups, England, Japan, France, Russia- every country has someone complaining. In general, it’s just intolerance when we come from that aspect, and most of these groups are brushed off as being just loud bigots. We also have another voice against the Justice League: the governments themselves, who don’t like superpowered people running around. Which… is it bad I want to say fair? A little?
Ari: Ok. So, here’s the thing- and I’m recalling that one time early on in the JL when the UN arrested all known JL members- I think that it is fair to want some level of oversight when it comes to individuals like Superman and The Flash. Who could sneeze or get a cramp and accidentally take out an entire city.
T: No, no, that’s what I am saying. There is a level of ‘yeah, you’re not wrong’. However, we all remember the Suicide Squad. And that one bill that Canada was floating around? A ‘registration’ thing? It was meant to be able to help with, like, getting you in touch with people for training if needed, but it was… it’s really hard to do it because of the multiple human rights it would violate. It’s not like this is a gun people can put down.
Ari: Right! A gun on a table with no one touching it is one thing. These are living, thinking, feeling individuals we’re talking about here. It’s not that easy. Nor should it be, if I’m being frank.
T: No, it shouldn’t. But this is just an example of the kind of debates going on concerning the JL. We then have the people who are demanding they unmask because they either a) think they have something to hide, which, duh? I wouldn’t tell anyone if I was… I dunno, Book Person who had the powers of that Inkheart book, where I could read things out from a book. That’s like asking me to get killed.
Ari: Yes! And that’s the other aspect of this that I wanted to talk about today. Safety. It goes right back to heroes and vigilante’s being living people. I did some preliminary research into alien cultures before this, and almost every single sentient race out there is like humanity. Social to the point of literally needing others' presence to lead healthy lives. Heroes and vigilantes, with extraordinarily few exceptions, all have loved ones outside of their work to keep safe.
T: Yes! They keep their names to themselves because of fear for not only themselves but their loved ones. Again, if I was a hero, I would keep that shit so close to my chest. But we also have reason b) people think they have a right to know who protects them. Which again puts them at risk.
Ari: I’m remembering that one scandal out of France. Some girl claimed to know a hero on a personal level, and it ended super poorly. I can’t quite remember the details…
T: The villain targeted her and ended up using her as bait. It was a lie, but the girl ended up in the hospital. I don’t think she can walk anymore. But like… on one hand, yeah, knowing who the person protecting you isn’t a bad idea. How many cops are just assholes? But again, the safety issue comes up. Cops are targeted by a lot of people. How many would target a hero and their family if they knew who it was?
Ari: A lot. A hell of a lot. And the trauma of those potential losses would absolutely mess the heroes in question up. In fact, this situation has actually happened before. Does the name Jay Garrick mean anything to you?
T: Fuck yeah! He got exposed as the Flash, like… wow, twenty-five years ago. And at first it was kinda fine? Until his wife and kids were killed.
Ari: And then he went nuts trying to fix it, and the current Flash had to step up.
T: I willingly forgot about the fact that they can time-travel. Fuck. But yeah- so keeping their identities secret? Protects them. And if you’re actually worried about a bad hero joining- don’t. I called them up while doing research and asked. The entry into the League is a literal 20-page exam designed to get an accurate feel of your personality. They did have some bigoted heroes try a few times to join, only to get kicked out. It’s not foolproof but… It’s pretty close.
Ari: Yeah. And don’t they have some of the questions in the exam posted on their official site? It’s really harsh stuff. I heard that Wonder Woman even has her lasso involved when they think there’s a chance someone might try to lie their way through.
T: Yeah, and again- not foolproof but it’s the closest thing we've got. So, the demand to know identities because ‘we should have a right in case they’re bad’ is bullshit. So, we covered the negative thoughts directed towards the JL because of their powers, the thoughts about needing to know their identities, and our third option is the one we hate the most: that they somehow, because of their powers, owe us their protection. That they should constantly throw themselves into harm's way because we demand it.
Ari: {long, slightly growly, unhappy sigh} Ok. This one.
T: No one owes you SHIT. That’s what I’m going to start with. These people are risking their lives to save us. Again, as touched upon, they don’t get paid. They do this voluntarily. We literally just had that scandal about that one hero in New York being homeless because he put so much pressure on himself to save everyone. That he felt he had to because of his powers.
Ari: Right. And another story just broke this morning about a similar story out of Japan. One of their favourite heroes is ‘on the job’ so often that his costume was the only clothing he had.
T: Exactly. This is what the demands of the public, that our heroes owe us something, do to people. And before anyone starts about ‘well if it was regulated like a normal job’ stuff- crime literally does not sleep. Our heroes have a right to downtime and privacy from the public. Especially since I am certain half of them have jobs. Some are probably nepo babies, though.
Ari: I mean, yeah. Probably.
T: Which… they’re doing more good than half the others out there, so I support it. Don’t be Musk. Unless you’re going to get in a bidding war with Bruce Wayne for Twitter, lose spectacularly, and end up publicly humiliated by Tim Drake.
Ari: {laughs} Ok. I remember that. That was funny.
T: Yeah. The entertainment value alone. Anyway, back on track cause this episode is long and we haven’t gotten to our sponsor. The Justice League doesn’t owe anyone anything. This is a volunteer gig. They offer answers to questions if you have them, they offer free public tours of their old headquarters and the space one, provided you pass a background check and listen to the warnings of off-limits areas. But they don’t owe you anything else.
Ari: Yes. They do this work because they want to. Because they believe in it, and have independently decided that it’s the right thing. Pushing for more than they’re willing to give will only serve to shorten the amount of time and effort they’re willing to put in.
T: So… stop, please. {pause} And I guess onto our sponsor! Ari?
Ari: Right! {Paper rustling} Uh… sponsor. Sponsor- Here it is! Valiant League Energy! … {flat tone} Really?
T: Yeah… not affiliated at all, but like… one of many like it. This drink does actually taste good, though. And- it isn’t a cover for a villain.
Ari: That’s true. I do drink one when I can’t get my usual coffee. And it gives a more immediate energy boost without fucking up your sleep schedule too much. I like their Fruity Mixer flavour. … Hold on. Didn’t Kid Flash get spotted with a can from these guys once?
T: Right. And then the JL publicly asked no one ever give energy drinks to the Flashes. {snickers} I really want to know what happened.
Ari: … Wasn’t that at about the same time as the JL HQ being painted entirely pink? Like, all the way down to the pencils?
T: Yes, it was. Yes, it was. So… hey, have a Valiant League. You too could cause some prankster chaos!
Ari: Or finally get some work done that you’ve been procrastinating on. Either way.
T: True. That’s all for now on my list! Tune in next time for our first-ever segment of: Vigilante shit or teens being teens! Bye!
Ari: Bye!
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MrsJane: Wow! I didn’t know all that about the JL!
KeithBoy: Okay, I actually didn’t understand why they keep their identities hidden until I heard this. Holy shit.
DeezNuts: What the hell? This is all bullshit- we have a right to know who they are!
->DreamiGrrl: Do everyone and yourself a favor and look up what happened to The First Flash. Then think again about this.
GothamBabe: New fan, going through the archive- HOLY SHIT BATMAN HAS BEEN PART OF THE JL SINCE THE START?
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Jason Todd ‘Red Hood’ Phone Records, archived April 30 2XXX on Oracle’s Computer.
The Belfrey
Tim-Tam: So like, they know, right?
Dickhead: Who knows what?
Brat: What are you blathering about Drake-Wayne?
Blondie: Have you lost your mind?
Tim-Tam: Ari and T. They know who we are, right?
Dick: No, they don’t. Ari is not that good of a liar.
Baby Sis: Yes, she is.
Dick: Ari let slip what every gift she’s ever gotten me was. They don’t know.
You: I once stood in T’s apartment with the helmet on, and they didn’t notice me for ten minutes; they were too busy playing Paralives.
Dick: Thank you, Jason!
Brat: As much as it pains me, I must agree with Drake-Wayne. Both Conners and Davis are far too sly not to have a guess.
Blondie: You’re only saying that because T figured out you had a thing for Jon before you did.
Damian: Silence Brown.
Bruce Wayne ‘Batman’ Phone Records, archived April 30, 2XXX on Oracle’s Computer.
Alfred: Should we inform the children that Mx. Davis and Ms. Conners are aware of their identities?
Bruce: No. Ari will most likely confess to Dick soon enough. Besides, it’s nice to see Damian and Tim getting along more.
Alfred: If you say so, sir.
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2 Years Ago
T hummed as they flipped through the notebook in their lap, feet propped up on the old table in their recording area. What was a good topic for their next podcast? Maybe… ugh, yeah, they hadn’t talked-
A slight noise had T looking up, their eyes locking with the whiteout lenses of a mask.
“JESUS FUCK!” T yelled, tumbling out of their chair. Batman didn’t move, still standing in the room. T groaned from their spot on the floor, not bothering to move. “You couldn’t have appeared at any other time?” They asked, propping themself up on their elbows to stare at Batman.
“T Davis?” Batman asked in a deep voice, still standing there. “I have some questions about what you know.”
“About… oh wait. ARI! Batman’s here to interrogate us!” T called.
“Who came to what now?” Ari called back. There were steps from the hall as Ari came from making lemonade.
“Batman! He’s here being all gargoyle-like.” T responded, not bothering to stand. Their heart beat in their chest like a drum, as they tried to keep their voice even. Probably didn’t hide it well enough.
Ari made an acknowledging hum.
“Does he want some lemonade? It’s on the sweeter side, and I have some to-go cups he can take.” She called. Then there was a sound of falling cups. “I’m good! Tripped on a towel.”
“Well?” Asked T.
“No. What do you know?” Batman asked. “About my family and me.” He leaned forward. The man wasn’t near T, but they felt a cold sweat on their brow.
“Oh ah… well…” T swallowed. “Well shit B. We spend how much time with you guys? And like… we kinda spend time with you guys, ah… on duty to?” They moved to sit up straighter, putting their hands in their lap.
Shit, shit, they honestly knew this would happen, but they frankly hadn’t expected… this. Especially not alone. Where was Ari? They wanted to share the terror.
As if on cue, the door of the room edged open just far enough for Ari to slip inside with a small platter of drinks and snacks in one hand and a shopping bag in the other. The tray had drinks for Ari and T, as well as sandwiches, and a black thermos.
“I didn’t hear an answer, so I assumed a to-go would be good,” Ari said with a mild smile, hiding her terror with surprising grace. “I also have a bag of your batarangs that we’ve been meaning to return. Just weren’t sure how to do it.”
“Thank you,” Batman said, accepting the drink. Even if he’d originally turned it down, he’d take it when offered, the ingrained instincts Alfred taught him making him.
Perhaps he was too close to the two if he slipped into them.
“T Davis. Ari Conners. You both arrived in this world five years ago, during the Event that caused our universe to merge with another while also causing rippling effects in the multiverse. What do you know about my family and me?” He asked, deepening his voice as he loomed more.
“Holy shit, I thought, since we knew it would be so less terrifying. I’ve seen you at Galas.” T muttered under their breath.
“Yeah, that’s not how fear works,” Ari muttered back, sitting on T’s vacated seat. Then she cleared her throat and looked up at Batman. “I do have one answer that will probably, I hope, straighten this whole thing out. If you don’t mind a bit of an… exposé?”
“Wait- full truth, and nothing BUT the truth?” T asked. “I thought we’d keep that to our chests.”
“Excuse me?” Batman asked.
“Hey- you can’t blame us for keeping our mouths shut about shit,” T grumbled. “Fucking universe travel. It was a stupid Tumblr post! Fuck that hellsite.” T also missed it, the website having never started in this world.
There was another very similar one called Swivelr, but it wasn’t the same.
“Yeah. That. But also, our… eh… home world isn’t one that you want anyone getting access to.” Ari said with a slight wince. “So, you know that the multiverse works something like a tree diagram. There’s the original universe, things happen, and other worlds branch off from there. Right? Well, if your- this world is a branch on the tree, then our original universe would be… the ground that the tree is growing from. Take those implications as far as you like.”
Ari smiled politely at the vigilante looming over them.
“You’re from our original world?” Batman asked.
“More like you sprouted from it,” T said. They finally got off the floor and moved to the side of the room where they kept a safe. An expensive safe that cost them both stupid amounts of money, but had been worth it to keep their original phones. Their last links to their old lives.
They’d kept it in the podcast room as a reminder. A reminder of their pasts and why they’d started the podcast. A way to really freak out about their new world, and to spend time together that wasn’t bitterly mournful.
T opened it to pull out their old iPhone, screen protector cracked on the side. Batman stared at it blankly, not recognizing it. Apple was still around, but Wayne, Queen, Luther, Kord and others were the big tech giants making phones. Apple stuck to music players, which were very well liked.
T powered it up, hands shaking. Fuck, they were really doing this, weren’t they? They looked at Ari, hesitating one final time.
Ari looked at T, then shrugged helplessly. There wasn’t much else to be done. She stood and grabbed the other iPhone, screen protector equally cracked as T’s and in a neon pink case.
“Phones. Our original phones.” Ari said uselessly.
“Yeah,” T took a shaky breath and pulled up their old book app. Staring back at them in it was a collection of books they’d adored for years. Old favourites, a few no longer in this world, they’d been secretly wondering about publishing online for free.
And a set of comics. Under the Red Hood. Jason’s return from the dead.
“You’re a comic book character,” T said, offering it. “Please don’t break this. It’s all I have left of my family.” The pictures in it were worth anything T could give. They couldn’t print them off because their phone wasn’t recognized when they plugged it in. Couldn’t email them since the internet in this world was alien to the device.
All they could do was power it on and stare.
Batman took the phone and looked at the comic. He didn’t move, didn’t look at them. Until he spoke. “I need both your phones. Don’t worry about the photos or anything else. You will get those back.”
“Please be careful. The energy in this world is off enough that they won’t connect to anything for shit. We’re lucky that charge ports work.” Ari said, handing hers over. Then she sighed. “I can also give you something of a theory of mine on how Origin Worlds are made.”
Batman gave a sharp nod, not looking away from the comic showing a way his son could have come back to them, a version slightly off. A version haunting his mind slightly.
“I have reason to believe that it’s based on human adoration.” Ari said, leaning slightly against T. “If a work of fiction is beloved enough, then something takes note of that work and… makes it real. That’s how most magic works. Right? Belief.”
“According to Constantine,” T said as they wrapped their arm around Ari. They shrugged at the look from Batman… from Bruce. He’d lost the tense stillness of Batman, becoming something softer. Probably from seeing how his son… yeah. It made sense. “A lot of people adore you, Bruce. A lot of people love your family. It became… reality. We didn’t expect it when we came here. Hell- we tried to leave. Gotham is fucking terrifying. But then No Man’s Land and…”
“We have purpose here. Our efforts, our help,” Ari said lowly, softly. “It means something. It makes a real difference. We didn’t have that back home. Just two more voices among thousands that were already screaming for attention. So… we decided to… stay. No matter how much it hurt.”
“You have helped,” Bruce said. He studied the two. Both had done so much, coordinating efforts during No Man’s Land to save people, making sure that everyone knew Gotham was still there. Refusing to be taken down. “I will return with your photos.” He told them before moving to the window.
“Hey, B?” T called at him. He paused. “Our feelings for you guys aren’t fake. You’re family.”
“Something to be said about the motivational power of a good story,” Ari said with a shy smile. “A true story is even more powerful.”
Bruce gave a single nod before he left. He had to get the data off the phones, see what they had and destroy them. But he didn’t feel worried about the two.
They had every chance to give them up. They’d been kidnapped before. T had been under the influence of almost every gas or toxin the rogues in his city made. Ari had come face-to-face with several rogues in her shop. Yet they hadn’t broken and told anyone. He’d trust them with this. Keep an eye on them, sure, but he did that with everything.
Once the man was gone, T let go of Ari to lie on the floor. “Floor time for a little while cause HOLY SHIT. That was terrifying.”
Ari collapsed onto the floor with them, giggling a bit hysterically.