Comment on The Harry Potter FanFic Archive is Moving to the AO3

  1. LMFAO this archive didn’t allow m/m slash
    In the goddamn Harry Potter fandom ahahaha

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    1. my thoughts exactly lmao

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    2. I noticed that straight away in their rules and thought it was weird, but maybe this fanfic site is super old. I heard that early Harry Potter fanfiction sites had a lot of these issues, including sites that banned specific ships.

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      1. Fuzzy overlapping cat paws of adorableness

        Fandom archives used to be a lot more specific in the days of yore. No slash, no het, no either, fandom specific, relationship specific, character specific. Personally I felt like people were a lot more invested in ships than they are these which wasn't fantastic. But it also meant if you had a specific ship you could find an isolated archive and you didn't have to put up with arguments about it. Same with types of relationships, characters and everything else.

        So less accepting but it was also a lot less fractious. I've seen fic on ao3 with multiple relationship tags that have absolutely vicious comments left because people only like one of the relationships and are upset it's not the main focus. In the old days you'd find an archive that liked your ship and you wouldn't be expected to cater to anyone else. A slash free archive or any other rule did the same. You wouldn't get hate comments because you were including slash, or threats to not include slash, because everyone was on the same page.

        Not a defence but I do kinda miss the days when fic was published into niche supportive communities.

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        1. thank you for the explanation ! fanwork history is always interesting

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        2. Huh, I didn't know about all that. Cool!

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        3. > I've seen fic on ao3 with multiple relationship tags that have absolutely vicious comments left because people only like one of the relationships and are upset it's not the main focus.

          I've been fortunate enough to avoid this sort of nonsense on my fics (probably because they are less shipping-oriented and so do not cause undue drama), but if it did happen, I'd give the complainant a full refund of the $0 they paid to read the fic.

          > Not a defence but I do kinda miss the days when fic was published into niche supportive communities.

          There are plenty of people on AO3 who only read/write one or two fandoms, and so in practice those people will mostly only interact with each other. That's a de facto community, although whether it's supportive is another matter.

          I think the secret is to write for smaller fandoms, or older fandoms. If there's no releases in a given fandom for a long enough time, the casual fans dry up, moderated spaces become a lot easier to moderate due to the lower volume, and the jerks all get banned from those spaces. Of course, moderation (largely) does not apply to AO3, but it's hard to remain a fan of X when you're banned from basically every moderated forum/subreddit/etc. that directly relates to X. For example (citing my own experience), the Undertale fandom was a complete dumpster fire when the game came out in 2015, but six years later, it's pretty chill, and still producing a decent amount of new content (some of which is shockingly high-quality, like TS!UnderSwap).

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      2. Filtering basically used to not exist on the common sites. You couldn't even tag ships on FFn until relatively recently, for example.

        So it was extremely common for there to be sites for slash, sites for not-slash, sites for specific pairings, etc. Because otherwise you had to wade through a ton of cruft no matter which thing you liked -- and as a result sites grew identities because people posted stories like the other ones on the site, or left if there was too much of what they didn't.

        Last Edited Wed 17 Nov 2021 08:51AM EST

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    3. I was thankful for that rule, otherwise the site would've been overridden by it like AO3 is. Pain to find a fic with no m/m or f/f as it is even with AO3 filters(looking at you fools who don't use tags correctly)

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      1. Preach it

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        1. https://archiveofourown.org/comments/484442938

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      2. Wow. Just wow.

        The unmitigated, homophobic gall, complaining about slash and femslash "taking over" an archive that was created specifically to host slash, because it was driven off pretty much all other archives by bigots like you.

        I'd suggest sticking to Wattpad, Fanfiction.net, and Spacebattles. You can find all the het you want and you won't be troubled by any of those nasty gay fics.

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        1. Duly noted and studiously ignored. Ao3 is the superior site for content searches and, imo, quality-written fanfic. Go ahead: clutch your pearls and gasp disdainfully at me agreeing with the OP commentor about untagged relationship fics. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine.

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          1. I mean then the problem is people not tagging correctly, no the existence of slash. Maybe you just need to chill a little and stop caring about what other people like lol. Your "opinion" is bigoted.

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            1. My opinion is mine and it is allowed to be. When mainstream politics decide what is right and what is wrong, the free thinker may well open himself or herself to scorn and the label of "bigotry". Those who need to 'chill', I think, are those who sneer and fuss and maintain a stream of a comment thread with complaints and shushes at those who say things that they do not like or agree with. Surely you people would think me a monster for championing that all the gay/les/cis/trans/non-b etc. fics should be eliminated entirely from this website? But am I doing that? No. Nevertheless, I occupy this site as - obviously - an un-Politically-Correct Monster. Those more accepting of certain standards must, of course, put me in my place by telling me I am wrong, my opinions are wRoNg, and that my tastes are wrong. My decision to steer clear of m/m & f/f ship-fics is my prerogative. My reasons for doing so is my prerogative. My irritation toward ambiguous or non-existent relevant tagging is shared by many, not exclusive to a single genre.

              Y'all have said your piece. You chill out.

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            2. (5 more comments in this thread)

        2. A rendition of the Clawed Girl from They Bleed Pixels, in a style almost entirely derivative of Rich Burlew's. My own work.

          You can find all the het you want and you won't be troubled by any of those nasty gay fics.

          If people tag Relationship Categories correctly, the same is true of AO3 thanks to the tag and filter system.

          The ideological strength of AO3 is that your content can only be rejected for a very narrow set of reasons, mostly relating to legal concerns.

          The practical strength of AO3 is the tagging and filtering system that – when authors tag sensibly – allows people to tell the system "give me Teen-rated Daphne/Luna/Hermione with no m/f", "give me Mature-ratef Snape/Draco with no m/f or f/f" or "give me Explicit-rated Harry/Hermione with no m/m or f/f" and have it come back with all of what they're after and (almost) none of what they aren't.

          "People don't do a very good job of tagging for relationship categories" is, if accurate, a legitimate subject for complaint even if the underlying motive in a particular case is noxious.

          Of course, if people are too lazy to use the filter system, that's their problem.

          Last Edited Mon 15 Nov 2021 11:36AM EST

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          1. Re tagging: If my fic is not focused on romance, then I'm tagging it Gen and with the appropriate X/Y character tags (if any). If you don't like X/Y, for whatever reason (gender/sexuality, you want to pair X with Z, you "just don't like shipping," you think X and Y should be friends, etc.), then you'll have to exclude the X/Y tag specifically. This isn't me being stubborn, either, as the Tags FAQ is very clear that this is the correct way to tag a fic where relationships "aren't the main focus of the work." So if you're one of those people who will burst into flames at the mere passing mention of M/M, F/F, or even F/M, you can't just exclude those whole categories and expect it to work. You have to filter individual relationships one by one.

            (Even then, for canon ships, it's about 50/50 whether I'll bother to tag it explicitly or just put "Canon Relationships." But people who are bothered by a canon ship are probably going to encounter it quite a lot no matter what they do, so they're kinda sorta out of luck there.)

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          2. The weakness of the AO3 is *also* that it's so specific. It's not slash or het that I want to hide, but the tween/DeathEater "relationships" -- which takes hiding hundreds of different things, including multiple different versions of Hermione/Voldemort and such.

            Different sites can be really nice for having community expectations of the kind of story you're going to get.

            (Well, and also that there's no way to add tags to something that should have it in order to have the exclusions actually hide something or the inclusions actually pick it up. Not to mention the stories that tag everything under the sun so are always get tagged by whatever filter you use, positive or negative.)

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        3. So saying I don't want to go through hundreds or thousands of slash or femslash to find m/f or no pairing in bad? If people here used tags correctly I wouldn't have even said anything. Yes, slash/femslash is taking over in the way that it is the most common fic type. So sorry you can't seem to understand that people don't like certain types of fics.

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          1. Which sucks. Used to read all the time and now it's so hard to find anything anything I do read is 4 to 6 years old. The amount of stuff I have to ban in a filter is literally unbelievable these days.

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            1. Not being facetious but why don't you just exclude M/M and F/F in the category filters? Genuine question, I don't see why that wouldn't work. It works fine for me. And if people haven't tagged/warned/categorised a fic correctly, you can report them for that and AO3 will (should) ask them to change it.

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            2. I do agree about the amount of stuff one has to exclude tho. It's ridiculous and annoying, but sadly unavoidable, given people have a right to post whatever they want here, within the ToS. That's why I really hope AO3 implements a universal/persistent filter someday soon.

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      3. lmao the homophobia is loud

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        1. I mean if you think homophobia is someone not liking slash/femslash that's on you.

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          1. You're allowed to have preferences, but once you openly complain about the surplus of f/f and m/m taking over spaces you obviously wanted to be f/m, somewhere plenty of LGBT people safely come to make content free of hate, you're being homophobic. Every fandom I've been in, there's more than enough f/m content. I read it myself and have absolutely no problem finding it.

            Last Edited Mon 15 Nov 2021 05:35PM EST

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            1. I only avoid m/m (the largest category on this site) because I tend to project myself onto the main character whether they be male or female, that's why I liked the hp fanfic archive because I knew every story was something I could get into without being surprised by sudden m/m because someone improperly tagged or thought a ship with the MC was to minor to mention.

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      4. You guys know the exclude option exists? That way, you guys will see only het works and not slash works. But one way and another, slash will always be prevalent in this archive, especially when this archive was meant to be created because fanfiction.net banned slash works and the community back then was rightfully pissed about it.

        Last Edited Mon 15 Nov 2021 05:34PM EST

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      5. You know you can exclude m/m or f/f from your search entirely right? Also, there are so many f/m fanfics you can find without even trying. LGBTQ+ writers finally have a place where they can post without facing many issues. You are allowed to have your preferences but come on don't complain about stuff like this when the filter tag system exists for a reason.

        Last Edited Wed 17 Nov 2021 10:39AM AEST

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        1. You do know that it's not just LGBT that writes slash? Unlike LGBT people, who probably wouldn't dream of writing f/m, non-LGBT people do write m/m f/f. I am not LGBT and I write m/m slash, I know loads of authors who write slash and are not LGBT. It's rather presumptive of you to think every slash story is written solely by LGBT people. Slash was not created for them. It is created for authors.

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          1. Slash was literally invented by heterosexual women for heterosexual women lmao. M/m (or f/f) erotica written by homosexual men and women is a different genre and not slash (or femslash). Someone is very new to this.

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            1. I feel like regardless of the origin, most people now use the word slash to refer 'is gay' regardless of who made it and for who. At least, that has been my experience in my circles.

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            2. Slash (these days) is to mean m/m gay. But ok then, to humour you, I write m/m (and m/f). I know many, many heteros authors who write homosexual smutty stories. m/m f/f is not just for homosexual people - it is not made for them or owned by them. Or do readers just assume that any gay slash story is written by a gay person? I know a fair few homosexual authors, not one has ever written m/f and one said, and I quote, 'A man and a woman? That's just gross! Just the thought makes me feel sick. No thanks!' (imagine if a hetero said that about two men?) Find me a homosexual person who has written heterosexual smutty story.

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              1. I...I wasn't disagreeing with you. I don't think you understood my comment.

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                1. As the person above said, the origins of that word matter not. These days, if you say slash 99% of people (you excluded) know it means m/m. People don't think slash = m/f - look at the comments, they all say slash and all mean m/m, not m/f. Everyone, including you, knew what I meant. You're just being picky.

                  Why don't you open your mind a bit and write a heterosexual slash story?

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                2. (4 more comments in this thread)

          2. A rendition of the Clawed Girl from They Bleed Pixels, in a style almost entirely derivative of Rich Burlew's. My own work.

            Unlike LGBT people, who probably wouldn't dream of writing f/m

            Bi (and pan...) people exist (the 'B') and a significant fraction of trans people (the 'T') are attracted to people of their originally assigned sex.
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      6. The Harry Potter section of adult-fanfiction.org is a perfect example, it used to be pretty mixed but now it’s mostly slash.

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    4. not allowing m/m slash in the harry potter fandom?? wth lmao

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