Comment on Important changes to adding work, chapter, and series co-creators

  1. O.o here here I will always and continue to praise AO3 for its freedom and liberty ( Eagle screeches in the background) works of fiction should never be censored and that is something I will always applaud AO3 for doing at every opportunity I can. The tagging system is incredible it's so user-friendly it's baffling that other sites don't use something similar I will never use or Wattpad or even adult FanFiction because AO3 is clearly Superior in many regards including not censoring as well as the tag system BUT yes I would like a private message system in order to not clog up people's fictions with off-topic conversations that have nothing to do with the fiction therein. I made a document specifically for communication where we would communicate in the comment section between co authors technically broke the terms of service I believe (don't ban me plz) but no one ever found it because it wasn't tagged at all. To be fair there are some things that you mentioned that are accomplished with the current comment posting system like leaving criticisms for grammar and such however there are some aspects that would be better suited for a private exchange. Or hell maybe a user is ashamed of enjoying a particular fiction because it has a not-safe-for-work rating or some sort of frown upon kink and doesn't want to leave a public review out of fear of retaliation sure they could log out but is anybody really going to go through the effort to do that when a private messaging system is in place that would make commenting have less scrutiny.

    Also is it too much to ask for ability to know who is subscribed to you? I would love to be able to show my subscribers specific appreciation. I have specifically thanked individual people who have left kudos but that's only because I know who they are I think subscribing to me is much more validating and gratitude earning. That's a weird way to phrase that but I think you get my point.

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    1. There's a privacy-issue with revealing subscriber names, I think, which is probably why they haven't prioritized it. Similar to what was mentioned about wanting to comment but not wanting to go through the hassle of logging out and then back in.

      I don't think ffdnet shows the follower names either, but can't recall for sure since I'm almost never on there anymore, lol. Maybe they just don't show the public the names.

      Honestly, AO3 should just add a "comment anon?" or "comment as guest?" option to publishing a comment, so that way the commentor maintains their privacy but can still track replies.

      It can just hide the name to the public and/or author but still allow the site to track for tracing any misuse/abuse to a troll's account.

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      1. Wouldn't your privacy issue argument also apply to the names associated with leaving a kudo or a comment for that matter?

        Even if it was just something like a star next to the subscriber's name that only the author could see would be nice imo.

        Again there is a bit of a nuanced difference between "someone publicly leaving a public comment" and "someone anonymously leaving a public comment" and "someone anonymously leaving a private comment" and "someone publicly leaving a private comment" all these are subtly different.

        I think the one I would hope to see personally implemented would be for accounts to private message each other for collaborative purposes.

        Actually it has been like two or three years since I've tried / encounter this I wonder if it's still the same and my memory is a little bit foggy. But I remember trying to modify and edit a draft that was shared with a co-author at the same time that they were writing on it and I don't quite remember what happened.

        Also there's the weird second chapter glitch we're your co-author won't have access to it if you post the second chapter and you need to add them specifically to the second chapter so that they can have access to it for editing even though they're co-author to the entire fiction they won't be able to access that specific chapter.

        There was a lot of trial and error in my early years on this site.

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        1. Good point about the all being subtly different, thing.

          I actually don't like that one can't leave anon-kudos while logged in for the same reason. The idea of a star for anon-kudos (with a totals-number next to it?) sounds like it might be a viable option, now that you mention it. Kudos could maybe be a heart? Or just left as the word "kudos".

          That second-chapter glitch sure sounds annoying if it's supposed to be set up for entire-fic access. Although it would prevent "editing entire chapter down to one letter" spite-edits.

          Author one creates edits, approves; author two gets notification to accept edits or not with visible tracking (like how in shared word documents, you can track comments and rough-draft changes and choose whether or not to print document with visible edit tracking or not) and hits yes/no. Initial author could choose to check a box for co-creator to have entire-fic editing access or require edit approval (from both, regardless of who makes changes). Author one cannot then remove edit-approval without author two's consent, although they can grant entire-fic access at any time. What do you think?

          Someone else mentioned allowing pm's only from approved users/friends. I definitely think pm's should only be allowed from signed-in users, to prevent harassment (because AO3 can revoke either their pm'ing capability or close their account) and blocking should be an option.

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          1. Nods

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          2. My Plotbunnies Say, "Write Me, Bitch!" - Cute and Fluffy and Maiming My Life

            An issue with that could be the odd times when an author has essentially passed a fic on to a co-author and either doesn't frequent the site anymore (left fandom, moved on in life, busy IRL, etc.) or simply can't respond (when authors pass away, etc.). You're not gonna take the other (or original) author's name off of it just so you can update/edit, but they also won't be accepting any notifications of updates/edits. How often do people in fandom just seem to disappear off the face of the internet? Or imagine if you have a co-creator listed because they made the art/banners/playlist/podfic, but you wanted to add a chapter or do some minor grammar/spelling edits or make it a series - and you would have to get this person who doesn't actually have anything further to do with the fic to accept any changes you're making to it.

            It's a great idea in theory, for the protection it offers, but unfortunately it could be more of a hindrance to actual creation. :(

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            1. Hmm... maybe the co-creator could petition AO3 for initiating authors' rights to be transfered to them? Or reverted back to them as in pre-"add co-creator" state? So the disappeared author's name is on there but no longer has editing powers (since they aren't there). This after a couple attempts at contact are made without response via comment or pm (if we ever have that) or the other author's account has no log-in activity after x-period of time (without prior heads-up on hiatus or vacay or etc.) to their co-author? This could also serve as a way to transfer fic-ownership in the case of one account being deleted or suspended.

              It sounds complicated, but it's really not.

              X attempts at contact without response or hiatus-note in doc/edit tracker (screenshots or other evidence submitted, if have)?

              Y amount of time with no account activity/log-in (something a mod or even a program can easily verify)? Or other author's account closed?

              Then Z: petition for fic ownership transfer approved, congrats.

              An easily check-boxed, maybe even automate-able system. At least in theory.

              Granted, idk the mechanics required for this but then, somehow AO3 allows for orphaned fics and the author, iirc, can track stats and reply to comments for fics they don't technically own anymore since the works were orphaned for anonymity. So idt my idea is completely off the wall, but again, not a doc-- er, I mean, coder, so what can I say?

              I guess a co-author could remove themselves if they know they are leaving forever, or maybe un-check their side of the "dual-edit-approval-needed" box if they'll be on hiatus. There's the risk of spite-edits then, but at that point it's just a chance they'll have to take. Maybe save a copy of the work before they take off on vacay, just in case.

              Dang, y'all really got me thinking hard trying to work these hypothetical kinks out! XD I guess it's good for me, keeps my brain healthy or something.

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              1. Green signpost saying Adopt-a-Highway: Butterflies & Rainbows

                Orphaned works are different from anonymous works. Authors retain control of anonymous works but orphaned works have all data about who created them deleted. They are permanently orphaned and the original creator has no special access to the stats or editing powers.

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      2. "Honestly, AO3 should just add a "comment anon?" or "comment as guest?" option to publishing a comment, so that way the commentor maintains their privacy but can still track replies.

        It can just hide the name to the public and/or author but still allow the site to track for tracing any misuse/abuse to a troll's account."


        That's another issue (in addition to lacking a private message system in 2019 when FFN and all the other fanfic sites have one to allow for communication between authors and between authors and readers on the site itself) that people need to complain about to the staff. If people don't complain and start petitions nothing will ever change. AO3 is the better fanfiction site, but some things definitely need improvement. The issue you mentionned and the lack of a PM system are among those issues).

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        1. True, although it's nice that we can discuss it with each other here and hash-out the details before presenting it to the site mods, eh? : )

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      3. When you're logged in on ffdnet, you can see which users are following you as an author and which users are following each of your stories, and also the date that they started following you/your story (but anything pre-September-ish 2008 is just listed as 00-00-0000). No one else can see that information. The same goes for which users have faved you/your stories (except that, this information is a bit more available to the public: if you are looking at a user's profile, then you can see which authors and stories they have favorited – but you wouldn't be able to see who has favorited them/their stories. The Follows are not shown on a user’s profile at all – only the user and the person/story they follow can see it). Also, I'm pretty sure there's an option to accept/allow or not to accept/allow PMs to be sent to you.

        Personally, one of the things that I actually prefer about ffdnet to AO3 is the Favorites. Because users are limited to how many favorites they can have, that makes a favorite given to a story that much more valuable (unlike kudos). It makes searching for stories "Sorted by Favorite" to really bring up (more often than not) the best stories in a given fandom (and if you use that with some choice filters, like "Completed" and "Published in the last 6 months" and “Less than 5000 words”, you can sometimes find some real gems that you might have missed) (and remember, even though you can see how many favorites a story has gotten, unless you’re the author of it, you won’t have any idea who faved it unless you stumble across their profile and see the story on their favorites list there; it’s highly unlikely that you’d be able to track down every single person who faves a fic that isn’t yours) (faves on a person's profile is basically an "I recommend this fic" list, meant to be shared with others).

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        1. Green signpost saying Adopt-a-Highway: Butterflies & Rainbows

          Wait there's a limited number of favorites you can have on FFN??

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    2. Yes you're damn right, zero_kun...

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