Comment on Not Drake but Jill: Act 2

  1. I'd love to know where that information is as I looked pretty thoroughly and found only two other uses of the word "Stormcloak" in TES Lore. One was Skegglund Stormcloak, reference in Arms and Armor of Tamriel (2E 578), and the other is a vinyard in the 1st Era.

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      The first two are in english, the third in french, you can see that Hoag Stormcloak (Ulfric's father) nickname is the Great Bear of Esatmarch. You can also see that Skegglund Stormcloak had a daughter whose name is Mera.

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      1. Ah, yes. I was aware of these wiki pages (at least the ones in English) but, after reading the sources they reference, I had concluded that I didn't fully agree with the fans that created them. Let me explain.
        Where I agree with the fan wiki:
        1. The name Stormcloak, from the 1st Era, clearly – in my mind at least – began as an attribution name for a Nord Tongue. I assume that, after Jergen Windcaller ended the practice of using the Voice for war, this first Stormcloak retired to a vineyard outside Windhelm.
        2. As we see in 4th Era Skyrim farms take the name of their owners. So the vineyard owned by the retired Tongue became Stormcloak Vineyard and the family related to the farm became the Stormcloaks. Two members of this family are referenced in material relating to the time of the Planemeld in the 2nd Era.
        Conclusion: Stormcloak vineyard, along with Mera and Skegglund Stormcloak, fit together pretty well and prove that there was a Stormcloak family in Windhelm.

        Where I disagree with the fan wikis is that I see no evidence that the family still exists in either the 3rd or 4th Eras.
        1. There is (at this time) no reference to the name in anything dating to the 3rd Era. Meaning nothing from TES: Arena, Daggerfal, Battlespire/Redguard, Morrowind, or Oblivion.
        2. There is no 4th Era reference to the name by anything dating to before the Great War.
        3. In the 4th Era there is no vineyard or farm by that name suggesting that the family that owned the Stormcloak Vineyard no longer exists.
        4. There is no one, besides Ulfric, in TESV: Skyrim that carries the name.
        5. Ulfric’s father, Hoag, is never referred to as “Hoag Stormcloak” even when doing so would have been easier.
        Conclusion: The Stormcloak family died out sometime in the nine hundred years between the events of ESO and TESV: Skyrim but the name was revived – whether due to prophecy or simply in attribution – in reference to someone who both was from Windhelm and could use the Voice as the name implies.

        So that was my reasoning, but part of the fun of TES is that so much of it’s history and lore is purposefully inconclusive, which both leaves a fair amount of room for creativity and for disagreement. ☺

        Anyway, thank you for being willing to discuss TES history with me!

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